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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by carolineh on February 9, 2005, at 18:48:23
i posted this in the midst of another thread on fish oil, but i decided to start my own because i am specifically interested in folks' experience with e-epa. specific brands? where ordered from? amounts?
i have tried 2g a day of omega 3s with no success, i decided to order some ethyl-epa (what the research is based on.) i ordered from an outfit called vitamin research products off the internet--has anyone tried this?
has anyone found e-epa worked when plain ole epa didn't?
(i found two listings for companies with ethyl-epa, and the prices were similar--it was more than drug store stuff but won't break the bank if it works.)
thanks, and please forgive the repetition.
caroline
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 8:07:03
In reply to ethyl-epa?, posted by carolineh on February 9, 2005, at 18:48:23
> i posted this in the midst of another thread on fish oil, but i decided to start my own because i am specifically interested in folks' experience with e-epa. specific brands? where ordered from? amounts?
I've never used it. I think the evidence for using it is flawed.
> i have tried 2g a day of omega 3s with no success, i decided to order some ethyl-epa (what the research is based on.)
Are you saying 2 g/day net, or gross? And, what form of omega-3? That is, did you take 7 grams per day of fish oil, containing about 30% DHA/EPA, to yield about 2 grams total? Or just two 1000 mg capsules? Did you use flax oil?
The idea of using ethyl-EPA, the ester of ethanol and EPA, rather than the natural triple ester of EPA (and other fatty acids) with glycerol, is not an idea based on expectation of enhanced effect. It is an idea borne from the ability to patent a derivative of a natural product. The company holding the patents is called Laxdale, and they've been the driving force behind every study of ethyl-EPA. If they can prove benefit, they make all the money. Horroben, a prolific author on the subject, works for and is an officer of Laxdale. (Maybe I should have said worked. I think he may have passed on.)
> i ordered from an outfit called vitamin research products off the internet--has anyone tried this?
>
> has anyone found e-epa worked when plain ole epa didn't?I think that taking such an isolated compound (essentially a food extract), without any of the normally associated compounds that would typically be ingested with it (not only DHA) is a flawed premise. Reductionist science, the idea that we can find precisely *the* molecule which does a specific thing in the body, is inherently restrictive. The dose-ranging study on ethyl-EPA found that higher doses were less effective than moderate doses. Is that because there was no DHA, no other fats supplemented, no phospholipids? That question cannot be answered, and you cannot generalize and say that the best dose of fish oil is one that gives only that level of EPA.
> (i found two listings for companies with ethyl-epa, and the prices were similar--it was more than drug store stuff but won't break the bank if it works.)
It's your money. Try some Carlson's?
> thanks, and please forgive the repetition.
>
> carolineYou're welcome. And I hope you can read past the cynicism.
Lar
Posted by carolineh on February 14, 2005, at 19:00:53
In reply to Re: ethyl-epa? » carolineh, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 8:07:03
actually, i'm not sure i can read past the cynicism, but i'll try. there's no patent on this product. each softgel has 300 mg of epa (ethyl ester) and 200 mg of dha (ethyl ester,) 1000 mg of marine lipids 5 iu of vitamin e, and some gelatin, glycerine and water.
so whether you're taking this or the regular drug store stuff, what do you think is the optimum amount for use as an antidepressant?
thanks.
caroline
Posted by carolineh on February 14, 2005, at 20:30:49
In reply to Re: ethyl-epa? » Larry Hoover, posted by carolineh on February 14, 2005, at 19:00:53
larry--didn't mean to sound snotty myself. i was just very, very tired. i appreciate your input.
caroline
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 2, 2005, at 16:17:13
In reply to Re: ethyl-epa? » Larry Hoover, posted by carolineh on February 14, 2005, at 19:00:53
> actually, i'm not sure i can read past the cynicism, but i'll try. there's no patent on this product. each softgel has 300 mg of epa (ethyl ester) and 200 mg of dha (ethyl ester,) 1000 mg of marine lipids 5 iu of vitamin e, and some gelatin, glycerine and water.
>
> so whether you're taking this or the regular drug store stuff, what do you think is the optimum amount for use as an antidepressant?
>
> thanks.
>
> carolineSorry if I was overly cynical. I'm in a lot of pain, and I am grumpy.
The proportions of DHA and EPA in the product you describe are identical to natural fish oil. The only difference is that rather than being part of a triglyceride (a three component ester with glycerol), the DHA and EPA are esterified with ethanol. The thing is, both turn into the same thing during digestion and uptake; free fatty acids, and free glycerol/ethanol. The liver recomposes triglycerides from free fatty acids after the fact, so I cannot see any particular benefit to using this product, when compared to plain old fish oil. Dose is as tolerated, which can be up to 12 grams per day. Different brains react differently.
The ethyl-EPA I mentioned is indeed a patented product. What sets it apart from what you describe here is that it is pure ethyl-EPA (a requirement for the patent to be in force).
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 2, 2005, at 16:17:38
In reply to Re: ethyl-epa?larry hoover, posted by carolineh on February 14, 2005, at 20:30:49
> larry--didn't mean to sound snotty myself. i was just very, very tired. i appreciate your input.
>
> carolineCe n'est rien.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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